
Minutes of SDAST chat-meeting held on Tuesday October 13th 1998

Those participating: Kirsi Malmivaara, Niels-Joergen Westergaard, Peter
Kretschmar, Carol Anne Oxborrow

Subjects discussed:

Background determination and background handling

Actions:

All parties involved in background handling/subtraction/determination/modelling
to provide descriptive text about background handling in their components


*** IRC session log started at Tue Oct 13 10:06:31 1998.
<Peter:#jemxadr> So our current baseline is working with these weights fo
+r imaging. 
*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Tue Oct 13 10:08:04 1998.
*** IRC session log started at Tue Oct 13 10:09:25 1998.
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> Peter, your email of background issue was totally in line
+ with our logic. END
<njw:#jemxadr> but the use of them can be helpful for image analysis and timi
+ng analysis END
<njw:#jemxadr> Another question: are we done with the ADD and are discussing 
+how to start the DDD ?
<Peter:#jemxadr> IMHO we're still with the ADD. As I've written to Carol Anne
+ the ADD is also in theory supposed to continue existing even if we have a D
+DD. But I haven't talked with Tim Lock yet how much maintenance of two docum
+ents ISDC really deems necessary. END
#jemxadr> I rather favour finishing the ADD and starting on something new and
+ complete, the DDD, with ADD as input.
#jemxadr> ENd
<Peter:#jemxadr> The DDD should grow naturally from our current - quite detai
+led - ADD and further information gained during prototyping and coding.
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
<njw:#jemxadr> OK, thanks END
<Peter:#jemxadr> But let's get back to the topic at hand - background:
#jemxadr> I foresee the DDD having a sort of architectural overview at the be
+ginning before it moves into detailed design. I also favour keeping the numb
+er of essential current documents as small as possible. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Just to be on the safe side - you do all agree to Carol Anne
+'s proposal to designate the catalogue of background data differently than i
+ndividual shadowgrams and that it should be made very clear in the document 
+which is meant at any given point?
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
<njw:#jemxadr> Yes, I agree END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> yes, I agree END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. point 3 covered.
#jemxadr> Thanks, I'll send a list of places where the cataloge/indivdual sha
+dowgram thing is a problem. END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> that's good, thanks. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> It seems the only points where we really need a discussion s
+hould involve Stefan and Niels at least. I.e. how do we treat background iss
+sues in JSourceDataExtraction? And is the whole mechanism of event weights a
+ctually a suitable procdure? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Does anyone of you know if this method has been used before?
+ END
#jemxadr> Kirsi, thanks for the answer you mailed to me about RID25 END
#jemxadr> I think the only real problem with your components was that a) they
+ had to be rewritten VERY hastily after the last real meeting
#jemxadr> And B) the whole background issue is so complex that these componen
+ts actually require a great deal of explanation in the Design Remarks.
#jemxadr> All of which, I appreciate, takes considerable time and effort.
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> That I agree, I should have written a lot of design remar
+ks, but
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> I didn't have time for that. END
<njw:#jemxadr> The method has been described in the literature as 'photon-tag
+ging' by Fenimore (I think) et al., I'm not aware of somebody actually using
+ it.
#jemxadr> If there was any one general remark that could be leveled at the do
+cument it was that there is not enough explanation going on. Otherwise, it w
+as a killer ADD, I thought.
#jemxadr> Just my (very biased) two pennies worth. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> It's the best ADD within the ISDC's scope, IMHO END
<njw:#jemxadr> The SAX WFC people seem to use a method along the same line of
+ thought END
#jemxadr> Also, Kirsi, about RID33. I didn't mean anything very deep by it. Y
+our answer's fine, so that's another one out of the way. END
#jemxadr> Could we perhaps have a summary of background handling, maybe four 
+or five paragraphs from Juhani and Kirsi, plus a paragraph from NJW and anot
+her from Stefan, just to clarify the whole background problem in the ADD? EN
+D
<Peter:#jemxadr> NJ: your answer reminds me of Allan's email regarding an inv
+itation of people from other teams or a visit to one of their sites. What do
+ you think about that? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CA: good idea! END
<njw:#jemxadr> Peter: I think it is a very good idea to invite one or two rep
+resentatives from SAX WFC to a meeting on the background issue.
<njw:#jemxadr> They have the problem right now with real data. END
#jemxadr> Please excuse my extreme ignorance, but what is SAX WFC? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Carol Anne: A summary would be a good introduction, so I agree
+ END
<njw:#jemxadr> The Wide Field Camera on BeppoSAX, the Italian satellite END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Carol Anne: will you send out a summary of our AD/R indicati
+ng clearly which RIDs are closed and what work has do be done? I know we hav
+e the RIDs online and the actions, but IMHO we need an AD/R report as well. 
+END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> To Carol Anne: We write short summary and mail it to ever
+y one END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CA's question: The SAX WFC is also a coded mask instrumen
+t and in many respects similar to JEM-X.
#jemxadr> I'll be finishing the ADD/RD today, and putting it on the net. You 
+will however, each get a copy of the flow sheet summarizing the current stat
+us all the RIDs, along with a list of your own individual duties regarding t
+he work arising from 
#jemxadr> the RIDs END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Great! Except that it means work :-(
#jemxadr> LOTS of work!! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> You're not too motivating ... ;-)
#jemxadr> I'm also nearly finished with the DDD environments, but you'll get 
+those next week. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> NJ, CA: when will Allan be back? We probably should not wait
+ too long before contacting these people.
#jemxadr> How's this for motivation?: There's a big box of Bogo chocolates fo
+r everyone who gets there ADD work completed by Wednesday of next week. END
#jemxadr> Allan's back at the Institute next week. But he'll be reading his e
+mail all this week too. END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> virtual chocolate, perhaps? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Hmmm, that sounds better :-) But how do I get it?
#jemxadr> No, real chocolate. Real postage! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Your definitely putting your heart into this! END
#jemxadr> You could mail Allan this week about inviting the SAX WFC people. E
+ND
<Peter:#jemxadr> Two - still unofficial - infos: 1. ISDC is also loosely plan
+ning an imaging meeting,. sometime early next year. But this is rather aimed
+ at getting all the ITs around a table again.
<Peter:#jemxadr> 2. Thierry asked me anyway to meet with the SAX WFC people a
+nd see how they work. So I'll mail Allan and we'll see what we can organize.
+ END
#jemxadr> Is there anything else important, I have to be getting on. END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> I'll get back to you all in form of a background summary.
+ END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Not necessarily. Does everybody feel assured they know what 
+they have to do?
<Peter:#jemxadr> One more item: do we want to have these chats halfway regula
+rly?
<njw:#jemxadr> Yes, I think I have enough for a considerable time END
#jemxadr> Once a month at the very least, I think. Once a week if we can mang
+ae it. END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> I agree END
#jemxadr> It would be good to have a regular day and time to meet/chat. That 
+way people could plan around it. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Maybe we should identify a time in the week when we are usua
+lly free for this. eND
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. Carol Anne and me have the same thought.
#jemxadr> How about Friday morning, when we've got a week's worth of worries 
+to discuss? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Fine with me END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I'll be away for meetings every now and then but otherwise f
+ine. END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> fine with me too END
#jemxadr> Of course, no one can be expected to participate in every single me
+eting. END
<njw:#jemxadr> Peter: that applies to every day in the week ? 
#jemxadr> Okay how about 10am, Danish time, on Fridays. 11am in Helsinki? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Less so on Wednesday, because I tend to combine them with we
+ekends. END
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> that's fine! END
#jemxadr> Perhaps this is 11AM in stockholm too? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> But lets stay with Friday. Carol Anne's thought about having
+ a week to discuss is good.
<Peter:#jemxadr> So Friday 10:00 MET. 
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
<njw:#jemxadr> Agreed END
#jemxadr> MET? What's that? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Mid European Time
<Peter:#jemxadr> Yes, something like that. I might have mixed English and Ger
+man.
#jemxadr> Are we really MID europe? I thought that was further East. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Actually it is. But even Portugal uses this.
#jemxadr> I'll mail everyone to let them know that the meeting/chatting time 
+is Friday 10AM MET. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Do you plan to meet this Friday? I might have another appoin
+tment 
<Peter:#jemxadr> already> END
#jemxadr> Any more to discuss? I have to get on with the ADD/RD now. END
#jemxadr> Not this week, I think we've done enough talking right now. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Otherwise that's it. Enjoy the document work :-)
<njw:#jemxadr> Goodbye  - 
<malmivaa:#jemxadr> good bye to all END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Goodbye everybody. END
#jemxadr> Good to type with you, Kirsi. Good bye everyone. END
*** Signoff: njw ()
*** Signoff: Peter (Leaving)
*** Signoff: malmivaa ()
#jemxadr> \exit
#jemxadr> 
*** Error: apollo.dsri.dk: Empty messages cannot be sent
#jemxadr> 
*** Error: apollo.dsri.dk: Empty messages cannot be sent
#jemxadr> \quit
<jose:#jemxadr> "/exit" Carlon - Anne
*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Tue Oct 13 10:48:52 1998.
