	Weekly meeting #4 Friday November 27th 1998

Participants:

Juhani Huovelin; Peter Kretschmar; Allan Hornstrup; Niels Joergen Westergaard;
Carol Anne Oxborrow; Stefan Larsson, Kirsi Malmivaara.

	**************************************
	
Subjects discussed:
AI Status: 	PK: Automatic documentation for DDD
		AH: Using Countrate Data for Restricted mode.
		    New TM packet format for Restricted mode.
Problems arising from Allan's Gantt chart: V2 and V3 deadlines
The consortium/review meeting in Geneva 30th November to 3rd December 1998.
January meeting for JEMX: When are we available?
Monthly reports: ISDC needs an application-by-application activity report.
		What to put in this month's report?
SCREWs: What are the differences between our JEMX ADD and the URD/SRD?
Goodbye Kirsi Malmivaara
Stefan's prototyping webpage
Next week's meeting.

		**********************************
		
AI's arising from this week's meeting:

981127_1	AH	1/12/98		Make a list over tricky schedule dates
for use at Thursday's planning meeting.
OPEN

981127_2	ALL	FOREVER		Submit application-by-application
activity reports until the end of the integration phase. End-of-month reminders
to be sent to SDSAT by CAO every month.
OPEN

981127_3	ALL	Christmas 98	Make a numbered list of changes in the
JEMX ADD compared with the URD and SRD (specify with document) so that CAO can
file SCREWs with ISDC to update these older documents.
OPEN

981127_4 	ALL	ASAP		Send email to ALLAN to tell him when
you are free for a meeting in January.
OPEN

981127_5	ALL	ASAP		Send email to CAO with list of points to
raise at the Geneva meeting next week.
OPEN

981127_6	SL	11/12/98	Send URL for prototyping web site to
other SDAST members.
OPEN

		************************************
		
	TRANSCRIPT OF IRC MEETING

*** IRC session log started at Fri Nov 27 09:23:51 1998.
#jemxadr> Hello, anyone out there? END

*** larsson <~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> Hello, Stefan, How are you? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine, and good  morning. END
#jemxadr> It would be wrong to claim we have sunshine here, but at least the o
+vercast is so light that you can see roughly where the sun would be if you co
+uld see it. END
*** Peter <~pkretsch@isdcul10.unige.ch> joined channel #jemxadr
<larsson:#jemxadr> Well, everything is relative... END
#jemxadr> Good morning Peter. Herring's ordered for you! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Good morning everybody! We seem to have network problems (AGA
+IN!) around here, so I hope this won't go to badly END
#jemxadr> I'll just go and see if I can rustle up NJW from the breakfast club 
+END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CAO: thanks!
#jemxadr> NJW should be with us soon. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To everybody - excuse for 2 minutes, I'll log out and back in
+ (with a changed PATH), this might help with some server problems here. END
*** huovelin <~huovelin@taurus.astro.helsinki.fi> joined channel #jemxadr
<Peter:#jemxadr> bye
*** Signoff: Peter (Leaving)
#jemxadr> Hi Juhani, how are you? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Fine, CA. Haven't seen Kirsi today, yet, though. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I think we should start, when Peter is back END
#jemxadr> We'll get started as soon as NJW and peter are back wtih us END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> We will have a Christmas Party at the Observatory today,..
+.
*** Peter <~pkretsch@isdcul10.unige.ch> joined channel #jemxadr
<huovelin:#jemxadr> I'm looking forward to it END
*** njw <~njw@heao1.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
*** Signoff: njw ()
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK, back again, hopefully without problems now END
*** njw <~njw@heao1.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> HI, NJW, let's get started. END
#jemxadr> First is the AI list. How it going with you Peterand the automatic d
+ocumentation?
<huovelin:#jemxadr> I didn't check our AI's from previous meetings...
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Is there something for us ? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Juhani: No END
#jemxadr> AI list is updated after each chat and is a http://www.dsri.dk/integ
+ral/doc
#jemxadr> No AIs for helsinki yet. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Automatic documentation:
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK. Maybe we should check other possible AI's then END
<Peter:#jemxadr> As far as I have been able to find out (forgot to nail down R
+oland in the last days), this is still *in development*.
#jemxadr> So should we just go ahead with our own ddd.sty, cumbersome as it is
+? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> So it seems END
#jemxadr> oKAY, that's all we need to know now, so I'll close your AI peter. N
+ext is an AI for allan. How's it going with that countrate
#jemxadr> data? END
<allan:#jemxadr> About count rate:
<allan:#jemxadr>  
<allan:#jemxadr> I have discussed the issue with Niels Lund, and the whole ide
+a is not
<allan:#jemxadr> quite clear yet.  one thing is certain, the structure will NO
+T be as 
<allan:#jemxadr> outlined in the current EID-B.  There are plans to make the  
+REST 
<allan:#jemxadr> format easier to handle seen from the onboard computer, and t
+he count-
*** Signoff: Peter (Ping timeout)
<allan:#jemxadr> rate imbedded in the format will be compressed.  The big disc
+ussions
<allan:#jemxadr> are concerned around how to avoid to much emtpy space when su
+bmitting
<allan:#jemxadr> packets according to the polling cycle.  If another approach 
+is taken, the
<allan:#jemxadr> We lost Peter ... END
#jemxadr> He got pinged, but keep going, we need to get the gantt chart discus
+sed before you're `pinged' END
<allan:#jemxadr> countrate will not be easy to give in a coherent way.
<allan:#jemxadr> Now, the action is about wherethe info is provided
*** Peter <~pkretsch@isdcul10.unige.ch> joined channel #jemxadr
<allan:#jemxadr> and here I think we must have the information out through 
<allan:#jemxadr> the binning components as lightcurves (eventually).
<allan:#jemxadr> But I think, that we should wait to see a more clear definiti
+on
<allan:#jemxadr> of the actual content of the countrate to see where and how w
+e
<allan:#jemxadr> can use it.  Therefore, I suggest to keep the action open.
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> Okay, I think that's pretty good for your AI at the moment, but I'll
+ keep it open, and extend the date for a month, is that okay? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK. Seems reasonable. Next item END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Fine with me. Let's hope we get this settled before the next 
+ADD version END
#jemxadr> The Gantt chart END
<allan:#jemxadr> About GANTT
<allan:#jemxadr> Dont be too sad about the GANTT projections and the V2
<allan:#jemxadr> deadline seemingly missing.
<allan:#jemxadr> (The new GANTT is available on the www).
<huovelin:#jemxadr> I have a few comments: ...
<allan:#jemxadr> There are options to consider:
<allan:#jemxadr> 1. NJ tells, that the days entered are total days, which
<allan:#jemxadr> include the days already spent (you'll notice, that some are 
+already
<allan:#jemxadr> partly done).  Therefore, the actual number of workdays missi
+ng is 
<allan:#jemxadr> not as bad as it seems.
<allan:#jemxadr> 2. The gantt information has been put in a bit too rigourousl
+y by 
<allan:#jemxadr> me.  It seems, that some dependencies are weaker, than the ch
+art 
<allan:#jemxadr> implies, and therefore the bars will shift in the right direc
+tion,
<allan:#jemxadr> when I adjust for that (next week...:-)
<allan:#jemxadr> 3. Peter has the source finding task, but I guess this will b
+e done
<allan:#jemxadr> by somebody else, freeing a good bit of the V2 problem.
<allan:#jemxadr> 4. Further, I think we can move the JRefinedImageReconstructi
+on to
<allan:#jemxadr> V3, since there is already good bits of reconstruction ready 
+for V2, and
<allan:#jemxadr> the final shining version of a JRefinedImageReconstruction wi
+ll 
<allan:#jemxadr> not exist untill late in the operations phase, which 
<allan:#jemxadr> makes it a V3 part.
<allan:#jemxadr> These and some smaller adjustments will make the situation mo
+re
<allan:#jemxadr> optimistic. 
<allan:#jemxadr> Further, one should not be too focused on the GANTT - it is a
+fterall
<allan:#jemxadr> only to try to see if things are completely out of scope, and
+ 
<allan:#jemxadr> it doesn't seem so.
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<Peter:#jemxadr> My comments: 1. Good, 2. Let's hope it helps a bit, 3. I migh
+t do this after all and get more involved in Image Reconstruction in general 
+*if* the new DSRI person starts soon and is able to take some QLA load off me
+. 
<Peter:#jemxadr> 4. This is OK with me, but should be discussed during the mee
+tings at ISDC.
<huovelin:#jemxadr> My main comments were just about what Allan explained:The 
+schedule ...
<Peter:#jemxadr> Finally: I do consider the creation and maintenance of the GA
+NTT chart very valuable in the sense that we are actually pointed to problems
+.END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> for JfiltAutoBkg and JSpecAutoBkg can hopefully be shifted
+ a bit END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> We probably cannot do much here in Dec,-98, since there wi
+ll
<huovelin:#jemxadr> be only me doing something (Heh, heh ) END
<allan:#jemxadr> We can change whatever you like, please tell me what and how.
+ END
#jemxadr> When will you know how much of a person you have to replace kirsi? E
+ND
<Peter:#jemxadr> All this should be part of the planning meeting(s) on Thursda
+y. It would be good if we had a list of components where the delivery dates m
+ight be different from the current ADD and also detailinghow this affects the
+ overall system. END
#jemxadr> Shall we make making such a list an AI on Allan? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Why not :-) END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> We will prepare the offline, and it to you by email later 
+today END
<allan:#jemxadr> You can just have the GANNT chart - it contains the informati
+on. 
<allan:#jemxadr> But I dont recall that the whole schedule was up for discussi
+on
<allan:#jemxadr> on THursday, my impression was, that the discussion was aimin
+g 
<allan:#jemxadr> at schedules for the components in QLA, SA and simulation.
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> I dont recall a discussion on Thursday at all !!!  END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Yes, but we are talking about shifting components that are cu
+rrently foreseen for QLA/SA  (i.e. V2) to later deliveries. And we should hav
+e a short list of these and the effects. END
#jemxadr> Could you make a brief list anyhow that NJW or I could use at the me
+eting, or at least discuss informally with some ISDC big cheese? END
<allan:#jemxadr> OK END
#jemxadr> Thanks, then at least we've got our problems nailed down. How bad ca
+n things be once they're on paper? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Juhani: Following the Consortium Meeting and AD/Rs next we
+ek there will be planning meeting(s) to discuss schedule and
<Peter:#jemxadr> interactions ISDC <-> development teams END
<allan:#jemxadr> But the agenda for that meeting was less 'overall schedule'-i
+nvolving.
<allan:#jemxadr> May I suggest to move to the next issue on the agenda END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> There will be people from DSRI, who could deliver our mess
+ages END
#jemxadr> That's something I left off the official agenda, but was in the list
+ I sent yesterday: is there anything those absent from Geneva would like us t
+o raise on their behalf?
<allan:#jemxadr> I have another meeting now, and would like to get some possib
+le dates 
#jemxadr> Let me know in emails before 3pm today. END
<allan:#jemxadr> for a meeting in January. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> There is a Ballerina meeting 6,7 january in Copenhagen
<huovelin:#jemxadr> We have something , and will sent it today (to CA) END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Is the beginning of that week too early? END
<allan:#jemxadr> May be a good idea.  I'l check with the possible persons to i
+nvite.END
#jemxadr> Thanks, juhani. I'm free all january at the moment, so book somethin
+g up before Planck meetings proliferate. END
<allan:#jemxadr> Can you send me by email a list of when you're available ?  E
+ND
<allan:#jemxadr> I have to leave, bye - have a nice weekend! END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK, we'll senr that info , too END
<larsson:#jemxadr> The same Allan END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK, I'll send it. END
*** Signoff: allan ()
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Same to Allan END
#jemxadr> The next item: monthly reports. ISDC wants an application-by-applica
+tion account of what we're doing so they can see where the holdups are in the
+ components. In the future I'd like you all to send me a list over your activ
+ities with each 
#jemxadr> application. Also, for Allan's planning, you will need to identify a
+ny holdups: waiting for files, etc from other places. Waiting for data struct
+ures to be approved etc. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I can't really object, since ISDC wants this and my wife is i
+nvolved ;-) END
#jemxadr> I'll put an action item on all of us, open for the duration of the s
+oftware developement: submit application-by-application activity reports ever
+y month. You'll get a reminder from me towards the end of eahc month. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> OK. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK   END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Start this month ? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Fine END
#jemxadr> Start TODAY! END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Looks nice (?!) END
#jemxadr> Next point: anything else to add to monthly report today. I sent a l
+ist
#jemxadr> of suggestions yesterday. Anything to add? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Nothing to add END
#jemxadr> Any application activity? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Nothing from my side
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> No END (both interpretations apply ) 
#jemxadr> You're right there, Juhani. Next point: submitting SCREWs: Software 
+Correction Request and Extra Wishes: how has our software changed during ADD 
+from what was written in URD and SRD? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Completely END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Ahem - quite a bit in the details, I'd say, your list was qui
+te good I thought. END
#jemxadr> Could each of you compare your ADD entries with the URD and SRD and 
+make a list of the differences, complete with requirement numbers and new num
+bers for things that are added? END
#jemxadr> I won't be getting round to doing the SCREWs for a couple of weeks, 
+so that gives you all a little time to scan and compare. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK, if before Christmas is sufficient, I'm fine. END
#jemxadr> That's about the sort of timescale. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Maybe we give that to the Father Christmas as a wish END
#jemxadr> I'll make an action item on us all, with CHRISTMAS as the deadline: 
+provide a number list of changes to the URD and SRD documents arising in the 
+JEMX ADD. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Just for info: I will be away (Observing in Australia) from
+ 10 dec up to Christmas......END
#jemxadr> I'll also make two other AIs on things just discussed: everyone to s
+end an email to 
#jemxadr> ALLAN to tell him when you're free for a meeting in January; and eve
+ryone to send an email to me with points you'd liked raised at the consortium
+/review meeting next week. END
#jemxadr> That's fine Stefan, so long as your Extra Wishes are filed with me b
+y Dec 10th. Anyway your components are still very weakly defined, so I don't 
+think there can be so much to report from your end. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> CA: I have to make lots of wishes probably (Still I will pr
+obably raed my mail and even do some work in AUS) END
#jemxadr> Please note: the last two AIs are due: ASAP END
#jemxadr> So long as you're available in Australia, that'll be fine. Just make
+ sure you stay in touch, where everyou are. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> (I have to carry my notebook to the beach) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Oh, and I thought you and Allen were going to log in from the
+ airport monday morning to read our emails :-) END
#jemxadr> That seems to be everything. On to the last point: Goodbye Kirsi! Is
+ she with us at your end Juhani? END
#jemxadr> If cowboy supper evening is a success I might not be in a fit state 
+to do anything except be poured onto the plane on monday morning. Thank heave
+ns allan will be travelling with me! END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Yes , she received the message . Kirsi wishes good luck to
+ us all END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I have one more thing
#jemxadr> We wish her all the best for the future, and are sorry to see her go
+. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Kirsi: same from here and thanks for all the good work you di
+d! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Stefan: what do you have?
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
<larsson:#jemxadr> The same from me Kirsi, Good luck with what your going to..
<larsson:#jemxadr> Yes.
#jemxadr> What would you like to say, Stefan? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Its about the prototyping I am doing.
<larsson:#jemxadr> When I am not reading writing doc's...
#jemxadr> It's great to hear you're on to prototyping: I'm still only dreaming
+ of it END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I have started to store some results on a Web-page.
#jemxadr> Even better!END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Wow !!! Now that seems sophisticated !!! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> The link is? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I will send you the URL by mail within a few days. I would 
+be glad
<larsson:#jemxadr> for comments and discussions about the results from those t
+hat are interesated.,
<larsson:#jemxadr> END'
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Yesss, we ARE interested END
#jemxadr> If I can understand what you've done, I'll be glad to display my ign
+orance by asking lots of stupid questions. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK, very good idea (Stefan's) END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine, I am looking forward to all those comments. END
#jemxadr> If it works will as a prototyping tool (Stefan's idea) we could try 
+it for all the groups. END
#jemxadr> Any more items? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> NO END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Not from my side. END
#jemxadr> I'll give you and AI to send us your prototyping URL, Stefan. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine CA. END
#jemxadr> I've put the due date in two weeks. Shall we have a meeting next wee
+k bearing in mind that some of us will only just have got back from the Genev
+a meeting. On the one hand we may have a lot to discuss, on the other hand we
+ may not be in fit
#jemxadr> shape to discuss it.END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I'd say, we have a meeting. At least thos of us who have been
+ in Geneva have the memory still fresh. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Agree. END
#jemxadr> So tentative agenda for next week is: matters arising from Geneva me
+etings. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> And spending some time here isn't *that* dangerous to your he
+alth :-)
#jemxadr> Probably less dangerous than being at homje with your children! END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Is there anything else ? We'd like to start writing emails
+ to CA and Allan END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. Some people downstairs are waiting for me END
#jemxadr> Thanks for a VERY productive meeting, y'all. Chat with you next week
+. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Bye. END
#jemxadr> Goodbye, and thanks for coming, Stefan. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Bye bye. Kirsi say's Good bye once more END
#jemxadr> Sorry to lose you Kirsi. Goodbye. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> See you soon. Goodbye to everybody and especially to Kirsi. G
+ood luck with all you future work! END
*** Signoff: Peter (Leaving)
*** Signoff: huovelin ()
*** Signoff: larsson ()
H njw          #jemxadr 0 Niels Joergen Westergaard         ~njw@heao1.dsri.dk
H oxborrow     #jemxadr 0 Carol Anne Oxborrow          ~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk
315 apollo.dsri.dk * End of /WHO list.      
#jemxadr> Goodbye, NJW. END
*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Fri Nov 27 10:42:50 1998.
