	Weekly chat-meeting #5 Friday December 4th 1998

Participating: Peter Kretschmar, Stefan Larsson, Allan Hornstrup, Carol Anne
	Oxborrow, Juhani Huovelin

Subjects discussed:
	The Gantt chart: revisions after ISDC meeting
	ISDC meeting, Geneva 30/11/98-3/12/98
	Simulated calibration data for V1
	Dependancies for coding
	Stefan's prototyping page
	Planning January meeting
	JSourceIdentification
	JSourceFinding/QLA
	Observations/mosaics versus individual ScWs
	JRefinedImageReconstruction V2/V3
	DAL3 Workpackage
	JEM-X/OSM interface: countrates, grey filter
	Next meeting.
	
Action Items:

AI981204_1	NJW	4/1/99		Provide calibration spectra in FITS 
format to CAO for coding/prototyping/testing of JGainCalculation components.
Also need to provide the values of the peak positions and widths.
OPEN

AI981204_2	ALL	11/12/98	Determine if there are any dependancies
not appearing on the Gantt chart that could hold up coding.
OPEN

AI981204_3	AH/NJW	May 1999	Determine whether an observational QLA
is needed for JEM-X
OPEN

AI981204_4	CAO/AH/NJW	11/12/98 Send email to other SDAST members 
about the subjects discussed at the Geneva meeting (30/11/98 -- 3/12/98) so that
these subjects can be discussed at next week's chat-meeting.
OPEN

*** IRC session log started at Fri Dec  4 09:31:27 1998.
#jemxadr> Hi everyone, I'm here, at last! END
#jemxadr> We'll start the meeting in 2 minutes END
#jemxadr> Thanks for your hospitality in Versoix, Peter, END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Good morning everybody! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CA: you're welcome, we enjoyed it! END
<allan:#jemxadr> May I suggest, that we try to have a MAX of 1 hour
<allan:#jemxadr> on these meetings, unless something very
<allan:#jemxadr> urgent comes up. END
#jemxadr> Agreed, to the one hour that is, END
<njw:#jemxadr> Fine END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Fine with me. END
#jemxadr> If something urgent arises, or something big, we'll make an action ite
+m. We can't solve everything with a little chat, cosy as it is. END
#jemxadr> I'm not too sure if Stefan is coming, I think he said he'd be loggin g
+ on from home. END
*** larsson <~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> Hello, Stefan, you're just the person I want to talk to! (All good stu
+ff, I'm glad to say!) END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Hi everyone (lets hope this works I am sitt at home through m
+odem) END
<allan:#jemxadr> We read you loud and clear END
<larsson:#jemxadr> FINE END
#jemxadr> Any one know if Juhani, and Sami, are going to be with us? END
<allan:#jemxadr> No, but I suggest we start - they must have received your email
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I agree, let's start. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I suggest to start with the revised GANTT; and then
<allan:#jemxadr> some informations about the ISDC meeting, if needed.
<allan:#jemxadr> Enything else?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> Okay, I have two suggestions for discussion: things arising from the I
+SDC meeting, and first hearty congratulations to Stefan on his prototyping web 
+page. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> (Thanks CA) END
#jemxadr> So, first, the GAntt chart, Over to you Allan. END
<allan:#jemxadr> OK - Gantt first :
<allan:#jemxadr> At the ISDC meeting, the V-1-3 due dates were presented
<allan:#jemxadr> slightly different from our impressions.
<allan:#jemxadr> That was an advantage, since now the V2 due is Sep 00.
<allan:#jemxadr> That solved the puzzle from our point of view.
<allan:#jemxadr> The new GANTT is on the WWW. 
<allan:#jemxadr> On the other hand, the V1 due date is moved to before our expec
+ted
<allan:#jemxadr> dates, so we have a critical path - issue there.
<allan:#jemxadr> It is only about a week, but we should start working on the 
<allan:#jemxadr> V1 parts soon to see how we eventually comply with the 
<allan:#jemxadr> expectations from ISDC.
<allan:#jemxadr> To that end, we need a few definitions before things can start
<allan:#jemxadr> This is especially 
<allan:#jemxadr> Definition of energies of peaks (should be easy - NJ or Carl)?
<allan:#jemxadr> and
<allan:#jemxadr> Provision of simulated (or real:-) calibration data.
<allan:#jemxadr> When can we provide the latter, NJ?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<njw:#jemxadr> Well, we can start to provide fake (simulated) calibration data
<njw:#jemxadr> in about a month. Will that be soon enough ? END
<allan:#jemxadr> CA ? END
#jemxadr> Yes, that will be fine. I've got to do some DD before I can start actu
+al coding, even prototype. END
<allan:#jemxadr> How does this fit with your gantt-bars?END
#jemxadr> I figure on starting the calibration fitting routines in the new year.
+ END
<njw:#jemxadr> I'll take that action upon me as well as the peak definitions (wi
+th Carl) END
<allan:#jemxadr> OK Action will be noted. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I will not here go in details, but perhaps you should 
<allan:#jemxadr> also take a look at the other set of definitions missing before
+ 
#jemxadr> I'll put an action on you NJ, to provide FITs files of calibration spe
+ctra, by say, JAN 4th or 5th. Is that OKAY? END
<allan:#jemxadr> the V" can start. That is less demanding now, since these
<allan:#jemxadr> work-packages doesnt seem to start before March, anyway.
<allan:#jemxadr> To end the gantt thing, may I suggest that you once more look
<njw:#jemxadr> I agree on JAN 4/5 END
<allan:#jemxadr> into the programs to see if there are some dependensies, which 
+are not
<allan:#jemxadr> there.  The sooner we get these defined, the better.
<njw:#jemxadr> V", Allan, is that V2 ? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Note, that the whole BG issue is moved to after Feb. on Helsink
+i request.
<allan:#jemxadr> Yes V" is V2 (upper 2 is ").
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> NJ, could you provide separate calibration files with different ammoun
+ts of noise? Thank you. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Allan: this means we all should take an action to scan our c
+omponents for not-yet mentioned dependencies - right? END
<njw:#jemxadr> To CA: certainly! END
#jemxadr> I'll write that action now. Due next Friday. END
#jemxadr> To scan the Gantt and dependancies, that is END
<allan:#jemxadr> to peter : yes END
<allan:#jemxadr> I am in US attending the HEADCC meeting next Friday. END
<allan:#jemxadr> But I would be happy to get the updates on email :-) END
#jemxadr> That's okay, ALLAN, I don't think you have dependancies do you. And I 
+can always let you know if there's a disaster looming. END
#jemxadr> Is that all for the Ganntt chart. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I have nothing further for the moment END
<allan:#jemxadr> Stefan: Can we put a link to your nice protopage from the dsri-
+web END
#jemxadr> I'll close all the action items from previous meetings that have to do
+ with preparations for the meeting we've just attended. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> To Allan re link: Yes. END
#jemxadr> I'll close your AI to provide the URL Stefan. END
<njw:#jemxadr> To Stefan, I've been reading your page and I think that it is a v
+ery good
<njw:#jemxadr> start on the analysis work. END
#jemxadr> I agree, it's a wonderful page, and very informative. I'd like to see 
+some of those design remarks in the next version of ADD. END
<njw:#jemxadr> Joined efforts, I mean END
#jemxadr> Can I remind everyone that we all have an open action to tell Allan wh
+en we're free for a meeting in January. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I think most people have. The date has not been set yet, though
+. END
#jemxadr> Allan still has an open action to look into the use of countrate data.
+ END
<allan:#jemxadr> Yes END
<njw:#jemxadr> I'll be here all January except the Ballerina meeting (that you'l
+l take into
<larsson:#jemxadr> RE the january meeting. Its fine if a date can be
<njw:#jemxadr> account anyway, Allan (?) END
<allan:#jemxadr> Juhani is not available the first week (before Ballerina), so
<larsson:#jemxadr> set quite soon since I have to decide on a one week visit
<larsson:#jemxadr> to the US in january or early febr. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I have to wee when it can happen.  I'll start fixing the date t
+oday.END
#jemxadr> That's it for open actions. My diary is completely empty for all of Ja
+nuary, at the moment. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I was thinking of Jean inZ'and as an expert - any other names,
<allan:#jemxadr> you wish me to think about. END
<njw:#jemxadr> Perhaps Jaaps Schuurmans who has been deeply involved in SAX WFC
<larsson:#jemxadr> I guess Jean or Skinner are obvious names. END
<njw:#jemxadr> software is an alternative END
*** huovelin <~huovelin@taurus.astro.helsinki.fi> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> Next is matters arising from the meeting. First you Peter. END
#jemxadr> Hello, Juhani, we're glad you could come. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Hi, was there something important before CA's next ? END
#jemxadr> We started at 9.30, and we've been discussing the Gantt chart and V1Sc
+heduling. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Oops, I thought it was 10 END
#jemxadr> Do you have any restrictions about coming to a meeting here in Januare
+y, Juhani? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> From 11 Jan on no problems END
#jemxadr> Peter, do you have anything arising from the ISDC meeting? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I was just waiting for Juhani to fully enter ...
<Peter:#jemxadr> Well, we could summarize the results from the ADR. I can only s
+peak about QLA, you should talk about SA and Data Structures.
<huovelin:#jemxadr> What ? No restrictions from January 11 on to come for a meet
+ing ...
<huovelin:#jemxadr> at DSRI END
*** Signoff: larsson ()
<Peter:#jemxadr> Regarding JEM-X there were no serious problems with the QLA Arc
+hitecture.
*** larsson <~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> I have some specific points that need to be discussed from the meeting
+ END
<Peter:#jemxadr> We have agreed that JEM-X ISSW does not try to identify sources
+ on its own - at least within QLA.
#jemxadr> That's good news for you Stefan, we'll be cutting out JSourceIdentific
+ation. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Grat.  .....END
<allan:#jemxadr> What about JSource Finding ? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> And there was an action placed on NJW to study the feasibility 
+and possible use of an "Observation QLA" (i.e. analyzing multiple Science Windo
+ws at once).
#jemxadr> That will still be done by NJW in ImageGeneration, but probably on mos
+aiced sky images to benefit at least a little from the dithering. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> The JEM-X team is expected to make a final decision on the exis
+tence of Q-JemxObsQla (see ADDQLA) by May 31, 1999. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I think source finding will be needed. (I need it for data ex
+traction). END
#jemxadr> I'll write an AI on Allan and NJW, to look into the Jemx-ObsQla, just 
+to remind us. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK END
<allan:#jemxadr> Here you see, I have thought the JSourceFInding was relayed to
<allan:#jemxadr> be PK's work, but that is not reflected in the ADD: But is in t
+he gannt.
<allan:#jemxadr> Is it so or not?
<njw:#jemxadr> For your lightcurve extraction, Stefan, it seems to be essential 
+to have source finding, but is it a QLA matter ? END
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<larsson:#jemxadr> To NJW: Yes since there should be light curves also in QLA. E
+ND
#jemxadr> I think you're right allan, JSourceFinding is Peter's responsibility, 
+but the component appears embedded in NJW's image generation components. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Stefan: the ISDC has toned down the scope of QLA between the
+ SRD and now and there is no requirement for lightcurve extraction anymore. END
<allan:#jemxadr> - but still in SA. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Peter: Yes I realize that (after some more thinking). END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Regarding JSourceFinding: I've once agreed to take this since i
+t seemed a generic task. But it's definitely within the ISSW image generation.
<allan:#jemxadr> yes END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Since the pressure on V2 has a little diminished, I could keep 
+the responsibility for the moment. TC wants me anyway to go into image reconstr
+uction etc. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I have actually left you with the task in the latest gannt, pet
+er.END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK END
<njw:#jemxadr> In any case JSourceFinding must be a collaborative effort END
<Peter:#jemxadr> One more point from my side (maybe CA has it on her list as wel
+l):
#jemxadr> It was agreed that for the SA, mosaiced sky images would be used for s
+ource finding and source data extraction. This means that while stefan loses a 
+component, NJW gains one. We agreed at the meeting to add JImageMosaicing just 
+after JBasic
#jemxadr> ImageReconstruction and before JSourceFinding, in the SA only. END
<allan:#jemxadr> Which increases the load on V2.  I think we should keep the 
<allan:#jemxadr> request for moving JRefinedImageReconststruction to V3  END
#jemxadr> I agree with that suggestion, Allan. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> We probably should define a "DAL3" workpackage with everybody c
+ontributing but one responsible to keep it well organized.. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Moving JRefinedImageReconstruction is fine with me END
#jemxadr> Stefan, perhaps you should think about how using mosaiced observations
+ instead of individual ScWs will affect your source data
#jemxadr> extraction. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> RE: Mosaic images. Yes I certainly have to look at that.
<larsson:#jemxadr> In principle no problem though.. END
#jemxadr> Also, Peter's source finding routine will be working on SCWs for QLA a
+nd
#jemxadr> observations for SA. I don't know if this will change things greatly f
+or you Peter. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I don't think so - I still imagine that this is a not-too intel
+ligent tool which should not be thrown off by mosaiced images. END
#jemxadr> NJW, you'll have to think up a mosaic image data structure too. END
#jemxadr> Do you have anything else to discuss from the meeting peter? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Shouldn't that be ISDC's (SP's) responsibility? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> No, shoot away! END
<njw:#jemxadr> Yes, but I hope that there be some inputs from ISDC on the coordi
+nate system
#jemxadr> I think it's a joint task. END
#jemxadr> Allan do you have anything to raise from the meeting? END
<njw:#jemxadr> representations etc. in order to be in line with e.g. IBIS END
<allan:#jemxadr> Maybe - I was thinking if the JEMX data about greyfiltereing
<allan:#jemxadr> can be seen in the current version of the OSM.  But I am not 
<allan:#jemxadr> sure that I know enough of Rainers OSM thing to answer the 
<allan:#jemxadr> question. Maybe Peter can?  Similar 'problem': Can one
<allan:#jemxadr> display e.g. the countrate if we assume, that the new telemetry
<allan:#jemxadr> packets will be accepted for resticted and spect. formats, i.e.
<allan:#jemxadr> that the countrate come in separate packets?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<allan:#jemxadr> If we can't answer now,  isuggest Peter and take an action
<allan:#jemxadr> to look into this. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I can answer. I'm just trying to formulate something.
<Peter:#jemxadr> OSM can monitor without further work, everything that is stored
+ as HK data by our Pre-processing.
<Peter:#jemxadr> For other data, there are two options:
*** Signoff: larsson ()
<Peter:#jemxadr> (1) One writes little FTOOLS that extract something from the sc
+ience data and stores it as "science parameter" in a table with first column ti
+me.
*** larsson <~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
<Peter:#jemxadr> These science parameters are then essentially accessible in the
+ same way as HK data, i.e. Reiner can draw these nice curves and par-vs-par plo
+ts he showed us.
<allan:#jemxadr> What does "One writes" imply END 
<Peter:#jemxadr> (2) If one wants to go beyond that (like e.g. the SPI detector 
+maps), specific S/W has to be written. This is normally IT responsibility, but 
+depending on his available time, Reiner may actually write the code like he did
+ for SPI. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> "One writes" implies: the IT writes or convinces their interfac
+e at ISDC to do so (OMC did that) :-) END
<allan:#jemxadr> ** Can we do the same **  END
<allan:#jemxadr> :-)) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Problem: this should be part of V1, so I have a tight schedule 
+already.
<Peter:#jemxadr> Otherwise I do not mind much. These should be rather trivial to
+ols. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I know, but it seems you should have about a month or so :-)
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> We have now been chatting for an hour. Clearly there are quite a few, 
+fairly deep topics that arose at the meeting, I haven't even begun to cover min
+e. I suggest that I write to everyone with the full background on the decisions
+ taken at IS
#jemxadr> dc so that we can all discuss any remaining questions next week. What 
+do you all think? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Maybe we do not formally include it in V1 yet, but plan to have
+ this as update of our S/W. Reiner has no problem with further parameters to be
+ added later as long as they follow the "HK-similar" approach. END
<allan:#jemxadr> OK to CA. And to Peter, let us discuss this off-line END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CA: OK with me. To AH: dito. END
#jemxadr> AI on everyone at the isdc meeting: send a mail to sdast about things 
+discussed at ISDC meeting. Then next week we can take up any points that are un
+clear. END
<allan:#jemxadr> ANything urgent, or can we finish? END
#jemxadr> Nothing that can't wait a couple of weeks, I think. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Nothing not yet mentioned. And none of it terribly urgent. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine with me. Since I will be away next Friday I will send an
+y comments
<larsson:#jemxadr> by mail. END
<njw:#jemxadr> With the email action in mind we can finish END
<allan:#jemxadr> bye bye - have a nice weekEND
#jemxadr> Next week the meeting will be at 9.30 as decided a few weeks ago. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Bye. 9:30, next Friday is OK
<larsson:#jemxadr> Bye everyone. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
<njw:#jemxadr> goodbye, nice weekend to all of you, NJ END
*** Signoff: allan ()
*** Signoff: njw ()
*** Signoff: Peter (Leaving)
*** Signoff: larsson ()
*** Error: Unknown command
*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Fri Dec  4 10:41:24 1998.
