
	SDAST Chat Meeting #10: Friday January 22 1999

Participating: Peter Kretschmar, Juhani Huovelin, Stefan Larsson, Carol Anne
	Oxborrow, Allan Hornstrup, Niels Joergen Westergaard
	
Subjects discussed:
	AILists
	Countrate Data
	DAL/DAL3
	ISDC ISSW school (March 1999?)
	SDAST meeting at DSRI in Febuary: agenda, invitees
	Background handling problem: discussion document
	Developer's forum
	
Action Items:

AI990122_1	ALL 	5/2/99		Read Stephane Paltani's web pages on
DAL3 for SPI so that this can be discussed at the next chat-meeting.
OPEN

AI990122_2	PK	5/2/99		Find out more, or arrange more for the
prospective ISSW school at ISDC
OPEN

AI990122_3	NJW,JH,SL 28/1/99	Create a discussion document on the
background handling problem, that can be used as a basis for discussion in
the Febuary meeting.
OPEN

AI990122_4	ALL 	27/1/99		Think about possible agenda item
for the february meeting and submit them to Allan.
OPEN

AI990122_5	AH	28/1/99		Make draft agenda for Febuary meeting.
OPEN


*** IRC session log started at Fri Jan 22 09:27:57 1999.
#jemxadr> Hello, boys! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Good morning Carol Anne & Allan!
*** larsson <~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> Hello, stefan. How was Australia? END
#jemxadr> NJW's office is locked, so presumably he won't be withus today END
H Peter        #jemxadr 0 KRETSCHMAR Peter         ~pkretsch@isdcul10.unige.ch
H oxborrow     #jemxadr 0 Carol Anne Oxborrow          ~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk
H larsson      #jemxadr 0 Stefan Larsson                ~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk
H allan@       #jemxadr 0 Allan Hornstrup                ~allan@exosat.dsri.dk
315 apollo.dsri.dk * End of /WHO list.      
*** huovelin <~huovelin@taurus.astro.helsinki.fi> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> Hi, Juhani! Now we're all here, so let's begin. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Hello there , so be it END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Greetings from Baerbel to you all - she just asked me if I wa
+nted to share a tea with her and learned we have our meeting. END
#jemxadr> First point is open acion items. On the web page, I've split the AIs
+ up into open, closed and ongoing, so that we only discuss the open ones each
+ meeting. Ongoing is items that will continue until the project is finished. 
+So look in that
#jemxadr> list occassionally to see if there's anything you're supposed to do 
+every month or with every delivery.....and do it! 
#jemxadr> First open AI is AI981127_2 on Allan to find out about countrate inf
+o. How's that going, Allan? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Sa you have all 'heard' from Niels email, the institute
<allan:#jemxadr> has been very busy finishing the EM to deliver to
<allan:#jemxadr> ESA. Therefore, they have had no time to discuss such - in th
+eir
<allan:#jemxadr> opinion minor - questions.
<allan:#jemxadr> When Ib returns, we will reopen the discussion.
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> Shall I change the date on that to the beginning of Feb. We need a m
+eeting with IB on several matters, I think. END
<allan:#jemxadr> Yes. Lets invite Ib and Niels to the meeting, and finish the
<allan:#jemxadr> discussion there.
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Good idea! END
#jemxadr> Good, new due date is 3/2/99 END
#jemxadr> Next is for NJW, who is not with us. But the AI is closed. END
*** njw <~njw@heao1.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
<Peter:#jemxadr> In German we have a saying "Wenn man vom Teufel spricht ..." 
+("Speaking of the devil ... he comes") :-) END
<njw:#jemxadr> Hello, sorry I'm late - car problems END
#jemxadr> Hi NJW! Next AIis AI981204_3 which is due in May 1999, but I will dr
+aw AH's and NJW's attention to it, just to remind them to do it: determine if
+ observational analysis is needed END
<njw:#jemxadr> Yes, fine, we'll do something about it END
#jemxadr> Another reminder for AH and NL: AI981204_5 to provide a list of para
+meters for OSM to display END
#jemxadr> AI990108_2 is on all of us to determine what DAL3 routines we'd like
+. Personally, I think it's a bit early to say what's missing from DAL1. I thi
+nk we need a little more time to find out what's needed END
<Peter:#jemxadr> This should not be seen as a finished job by end of january.
<Peter:#jemxadr> But still, Stephan would like to get some hints in which dire
+ction to go.
<njw:#jemxadr> I agree that DAL3 is a bit too early. I'm working my way with D
+AL(2)
<njw:#jemxadr> and it seems that more understanding is needed so we can avoid 
+to
<njw:#jemxadr> make superfluous DAL3 routines END
<Peter:#jemxadr> This applies especially to CA, NJW and me, who want to delive
+r early software. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Sami is just getting acquainted with DAL(?), so we agree t
+hat DAL3 is too early END
#jemxadr> Having read through the list of DAL1 functions, I can't see that the
+re's anything missing. It's only I/O after all. How many different ways can y
+ou read a file? END
#jemxadr> I'm pretty sure I can do everything I need, one way or another with 
+the DAL1 functions that already exist. I'm a little opposed to making lots of
+ specialised functions and increasing the complexity of the system, which is 
+already quite 
#jemxadr> baroque. END
<njw:#jemxadr> To CAO: I believe that DAL3 will take care of where to find app
+roprate
<njw:#jemxadr> files in the data repository END
<Peter:#jemxadr> DAL3 is mainly there to simplify our life. The most obvious e
+xample, IMHO, would be a function that gives you "corrected events" and opens
+ all the necessary data structures to get the time, the corrected position et
+c. 
#jemxadr> Perhaps you're right NJW: the repository system is quite baroque too
+: perhaps we do need a little extra help finding our way around. But is this 
+a specifically JEMX problem? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Using DAL (just forget about 1 + 2) you would need to open se
+veral DS with our current scheme and extract the info one by
<Peter:#jemxadr> one. But We should probably chnage this into an ongoing actio
+n. END
<allan:#jemxadr> Maybe we could get a brief 'news and views' from Peter
<allan:#jemxadr> at the meeting - representing Don and ISDC etc?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Btw, ISDC is considering hosting a N day "ISSW school" not to
+o far in the future. Would some of you consider coming to such an event? END
#jemxadr> Stephane says the SPI DAL3 work he's done should be some indication 
+of what's possible. Can I suggest as an AI that we all read Stephane's DAL3 p
+ages for SPI by next week, and leave the suggestions of our own till theweek 
+after, when we've 
#jemxadr> had a chance to discuss it? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Allan: I'll try to give a summary, in the line of what we'
+ve e.g. now been telling the OMC people. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> By the way, we have a listing of DAL document version 1.2 
+(Nov 1, 98) . Are there major changes after that ? END
<njw:#jemxadr> I have a version 1.2.2 (19 Nov 1998) END
<allan:#jemxadr> When will the ISSW school happen? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I'll check with Don on the status of the document. But being 
+a new father he spends many hours outside ISDC currentl ... END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> School ? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> ISSW School - no date set yet. Up to now it's just an idea th
+at  sprung up because we get so many questions and slowly actually seem to ha
+ve answers :-). Maybe in March? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> To Peter Re "ISSW school": I would try to go if I can. END
#jemxadr> All of march is open for me, so I'd definitely be interested. END
<njw:#jemxadr> I'll be interested in a workshop on DAL and ISSW and March is p
+robably a good time END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK, I'll take note and discuss this further with the others h
+ere. 
<allan:#jemxadr> Could it be combined with the ISDC meeting at end of March? E
+ND
<Peter:#jemxadr> Juhani/Sami would you be interested too? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Allan: possibly a good idea, though sometimes people are v
+ery busy just before these meetings. I'll keep it in mind. END
<njw:#jemxadr> In the meantime maybe the ISDC people like Don, Stephane, Bruce
+, Jurek etc. may have a look at our published development code END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Yes. March might be best . How long would it last ? END
#jemxadr> Concerning the AI under discussion: we'll have an AI to all read Ste
+phane's SPI DAL3 web pages, and discuss this next week. Preliminary suggestio
+ns for our own DAL3 would then be due the week after that Friday 5th  feb, ok
+ay? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Too early I think, at least a week more END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To NJW: OK I'll ask them to do this too. But don't expect too
+ much -- we're not much better than anybody else in doing all these things th
+at don't have a firm deadline and somebody breathing down our necks ... END
#jemxadr> New AI to do required reading will be 5/2/99 and discussion will be 
+held 5/2/99 and suggestions should be in 12/2/99. Is that better? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> DAL3: I concur - let'smove the deadline to mid-February. Step
+hane won't object...
#jemxadr> Can we put an AI on Peter to find/arrange more about this ISSW schoo
+l? END
<njw:#jemxadr> alright END
#jemxadr> I've given you a deadline in two weeks, Peter. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Fine with me - due next Friday. I can't promise precise dates
+ then, but I'll try. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> If it's intwo weeks, I can tell you at our live meeting. END
#jemxadr> Next AI is on all of us to send background handling questions to NJW
+ and JH for collating into a coherent discussion document that can be present
+ed/discussed at the meeting in February. Any comments? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Ahem, none so far - it's on my mental stack of "things to pon
+der" ... END
#jemxadr> I confess, I haven't sent anything, simply because I don't know much
+ about this sort of problem at all. NJW and JH seem to be the experts. END
<njw:#jemxadr> I think we should include Stefan as an expert as well END
<allan:#jemxadr> I think you can start collecting the discussion we had previo
+usly as the input.  Would that be sufficient to get the note done?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> Good. Stefan do you have input to the background problem? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> At the moment I am reading t Zand's thesis in
<huovelin:#jemxadr> We have received a question from Stefan, and I will send t
+he answer to all of you END
<larsson:#jemxadr> some more detail.
<larsson:#jemxadr> Juhani: do you have any references (my mail from yesterday)
+? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> It may help you to find questions, ifyou have time to read
+ the references END
#jemxadr> If there are no more comments, can we put an AI on our three experts
+ to 
#jemxadr> make a discussion document to be circulated before the February meet
+ing? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> yes. END
<njw:#jemxadr> yes END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Suggestions on what kind of "discussion document" ? END
#jemxadr> Your proposals/exposition of the problem/ideas that we can chew over
+ wtih our imported expert (Gerry?) END
#jemxadr> Your deadline is 28/1/99, so that we all have chance to read it thor
+oughly before the meeting itself. END
<njw:#jemxadr> agree END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Too. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK. So, we shall prepare that with NJW (?) END
#jemxadr> The AI is on all three experts: NJW, SL and JH END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Accepted. END
<njw:#jemxadr> I'll send out an outline bu monday and then we can help each ot
+her to fill in the meat (?) END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Fine END
<njw:#jemxadr> bu = by END
<allan:#jemxadr> OK END
#jemxadr> So AI990115_2 is superceded by AI990122_3, so we move on to AI990115
+_3
#jemxadr> which is to read the Nice Code Guide that peter wrote. I'll assume y
+ou've all been good and done this. The document is on the developer's forum i
+f you still haven't got a hard copy taped to the wall of your office yet. END
#jemxadr> Thats all for AI's. Next is to discuss the February meeting. Clearly
+ the most important preparation for this is the discussion document. Other co
+mments? Is Gerry definitely coming? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Yes END
#jemxadr> On a gastronomic note: could you all send me any details about what 
+you do and don't eat. Thank you. END
#jemxadr> So that's it for discussion of the next live meeting? END
<allan:#jemxadr> No, please let me know if you have things on
<allan:#jemxadr> the agenda, that you want me to put there. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I probably have, but it hasn't completely solidified yet ...
<huovelin:#jemxadr> We can eat anything good, even with milk in it (lactose) E
+ND
<Peter:#jemxadr> Probably I should try to summarize soem of the presentations 
+I've seen here on DAL etc.
#jemxadr> I think everyone should have a think about possible agenda items, an
+d we can discuss the agenda next chat meeting. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. END
#jemxadr> Peter: that sounds like an excellent idea, about DAL END
<allan:#jemxadr> Is an agenda finished next Friday acceptable to everybody?
#jemxadr> Os that's an AI on all of us to find agenda items, and send suggesti
+ons to Allan, by or on next chat meeting. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> There's probably more to come. Allan,when yyou make a rough p
+lan, set aside around 2h for y presentations and discussions. END
<allan:#jemxadr> What if you 'suddenly' need to prepare 
<allan:#jemxadr> somethjung?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> Will you invite Ib and Niels formally, Allan. I'd rather you did it 
+in an official capacity END
<allan:#jemxadr> Yes, they'll be invited. Actually the y do get all SDAST emai
+ls, but
<allan:#jemxadr> I will try to make sure they can participate, or that
<allan:#jemxadr> we get the information in advance.EDN
<Peter:#jemxadr> Allan has a point regarding the time: is everybody sure they 
+can prepare the meeting if we agree on the agenda by Friday morning? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> OK with me. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I think I need the agenda suggestions by Wed.
#jemxadr> So we'll send our suggesions to Allan by Wednesday, say, and he can 
+produce an agenda by Thursday and we can prepare Friday, including a short di
+scussion of the agenda during the chat? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Then I can distribute hte draft agenda and we can fine
<allan:#jemxadr> tune the issues at the chat next friday.
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<njw:#jemxadr> That's find END
#jemxadr> Great minds think alike, Allan END
<allan:#jemxadr> Sure END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK END
#jemxadr> A quick update on the developer's forum page: I've added a link to
#jemxadr> NJW's prototyping page, bristling with actual code and how-to-do thi
+ngs in DAL.
#jemxadr> He's also contributed some QandA notes that could be worthwhile for 
+all of us. Please take a look, because these things could be useful. END
#jemxadr> Other links/note/whatever are always welcome. END
#jemxadr> Any comments? AOB? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Not from my side, right now. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Not from here. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> No END
#jemxadr> Then it just remains to wish you a good weekend, and remind you all 
+to keep up to date with the AI list by looking at the SDAST virtual meeting p
+age on the DSRI/www/integral/doc website. END
<njw:#jemxadr> No, an hour has lapsed, it's time to say goodbye: Good-bye and 
+have a nice seek-end END
<allan:#jemxadr> bye bye
*** Signoff: njw ()
<Peter:#jemxadr> Have a nice weekend! END
*** Signoff: Peter (Leaving)
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Bye bye ! END
<allan:#jemxadr> (Peter - please stay on., I have a question to you)
*** Signoff: huovelin ()
*** Signoff: allan ()
<larsson:#jemxadr> By, by END
*** Signoff: larsson ()
#jemxadr> Bye  bye all END
*** Error: Unknown command
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*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Fri Jan 22 10:38:36 1999.
