	Weekly Chat Meeting #11: Friday 5th Febuary 1999
	
Participants: Allan Hornstrup, Peter Kretschmar, Juhani Huovelin, Stefan
	Larsson, Carol Anne Oxborrow, Niels Joergen Westergaard
		
Topics Discussed:
	Countrate Data
	ADD Update
	DAL3 wishes
	ISSW School at ISDC

Action Items:

AI990205_1	PK	ASAP		Find out how many ISDC SW gurus can
be available for our ISSW `school' and email us with the results so we can
find good dates.
OPEN

AI990205_2	ALL	19/2/99		Draw up list of topics to be covered 
at the ISSW `School' in March.
OPEN


*** IRC session log started at Fri Feb  5 09:30:17 1999.
#jemxadr> Hello everyone. END
<njw:#jemxadr> Good morning everybody END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Hi. END
*** allan <~allan@apollo.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> I'll just go and find Allan. END
<allan:#jemxadr> Come on in my office, youre welcome. END
#jemxadr> Okay, let's keep this brief
#jemxadr> Firstly, I think we had a very productive meeting this week. Any dissen
+ting opinions? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Not from me END
<larsson:#jemxadr> No. END
<njw:#jemxadr> Agree END
#jemxadr> I hope all the people who actually have to deal with the background pro
+blem know what they're supposed to be attempting to do now. END
#jemxadr> So on to a rundown of action items. END
<allan:#jemxadr> First one is on me ...
<allan:#jemxadr> But I think we covered the countrate discussion
<allan:#jemxadr> to an extent possible for the time being. END
#jemxadr> So is that one closed now? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> IMHO yes. 
<allan:#jemxadr> Are there doubts about how and where to use it? END
#jemxadr> Good. Closed it is. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> We only have to make sure that NL and ILR actually deliver the T
+M description soon. END
<allan:#jemxadr> Sure END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Regarding Allan's question:
<Peter:#jemxadr> Probably it should also be treated by JDataBinning.
<Peter:#jemxadr> Any other ideas? END
<allan:#jemxadr> I think it should. Maybe you could look into
<allan:#jemxadr> that when we get the updated TN END
H allan        #jemxadr 0 Allan Hornstrup                ~allan@apollo.dsri.dk
H oxborrow     #jemxadr 0 Carol Anne Oxborrow          ~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk
H Peter        #jemxadr 0 KRETSCHMAR Peter         ~pkretsch@isdcul10.unige.ch
H huovelin     #jemxadr 0 *real name unknown*   ~huovelin@us.astro.helsinki.fi
H njw@         #jemxadr 0 Niels Joergen Westergaard         ~njw@heao1.dsri.dk
H larsson      #jemxadr 0 Stefan Larsson              ~larsson@130.226.216.181
315 apollo.dsri.dk * End of /WHO list.      
<Peter:#jemxadr> It seems the ADD update will be quite significant. When did we p
+lan to have it? END
<allan:#jemxadr> After the clarification of the data structures etc. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> IN fact, our BKG plan in there does not seem to need so much 
+changes (for now) END
<allan:#jemxadr> No, but there are other things (Data structures :-) . CA: WOuld 
+mid April
<allan:#jemxadr> be a possible time - assuming ISDC has finished the def. of
<allan:#jemxadr> data structures etc ? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Regarding data structures: I'm almost through with editing the s
+cience data (raw, prepared, corrected), so at least for the early steps, there w
+on't be much further delay. END
#jemxadr> Yes, I assumed about mid April for the ADD update, to coincide with the
+ Vq1 deliveries.
#jemxadr> There will be a general update, but mostly we'll be concerned with gett
+ing the already delivered applications into their almost final ADD form at that 
+time. 
#jemxadr> This means there
#jemxadr> 'll be lots of time for the V2 and V3 modules to get their act together
+ before their part of the ADD needs updating. END
#jemxadr> Is the delivery-by-delivery approach to ADD update okay with everyone? 
+END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I should think so. END
<allan:#jemxadr> yesEND
<njw:#jemxadr> yes END
<allan:#jemxadr> AI to get next ADD out mid April ? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Fine with me. But if I have some additions to V2, I may put them
+ in earlier, OK? END
#jemxadr> Next AI is for AH and NJW to determine if we need analysis on an observ
+ation basis, as opposed to a Science window basis. This is due May, but I hopeyo
+u guys are already thinking about it a little. I guess once the simulator is in 
+operation
#jemxadr> we
#jemxadr> 'll have a better idea of the answer to that one. END
<allan:#jemxadr> (nodding) END
#jemxadr> Next, in Febuary AH and NL need to provide a list of parameters for OSM
+ to display. How's that going AH? END
<allan:#jemxadr> No progress :-{ END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> That's interesting for us , too (performance ...) END
#jemxadr> Okay, Febuary's still young END
<allan:#jemxadr> Juhani, we'll keep you posted. I'll start the disscussion today 
+END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Sounds excellent END
#jemxadr> Next two AI's are about determining our DAL3 wishes.
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Huh , huh ,   by when ? END
#jemxadr> Can I suggest we do the required reading and devote some of next week's
+ chat meeting to discussing the DAL3 possiblities. We can provide Stephane with 
+a preliminary list of requirements after that chat. What say you? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Well, first of all it would be very helpful, if Stephane got a f
+ormal agreement on his two proposed functions. END
#jemxadr> What two proposed functions? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CAO's proposal - also fine, but we should make some progress 
+on this. 
<Peter:#jemxadr> The two I showed at our meeting :-) END
#jemxadr> Oh THOSE two. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> You can also find them on Stephane's DAL3 page, though there mig
+ht be still a nonsensical warning about the page being obsolete END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> I suppose I was not there (monday morning )  END
#jemxadr> Can we discuss them next week? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Please inform us how to find them , exactly END
<njw:#jemxadr> DALJEMXGetNumEvents and DALJEMXGetEvents ? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. But please _do_ read the documentation available and see if 
+you find problems. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To NJW - precisely those. END
#jemxadr> Okay, this subject has been limping on somewhat since Christmas. How ab
+out we make one concerted effort for next week? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Next week I will be teaching (all week!) including Friday so w
+ill not
<allan:#jemxadr> You'll today receive a copy of Peters viewgraphs,
<larsson:#jemxadr> be able to participate (or do any work), sorry chaps. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Juhani: the WWW address is http://obswww.unige.ch/~paltani/da
+l3.html
<allan:#jemxadr> where they are described (in brief). END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Look for the JEM-X link and ignore any OBSOLETE warnings. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I seem to recall, that we had some comments to DALJEMXGetNumEven
+ts
<allan:#jemxadr> is that true? END
#jemxadr> That's okay, Stefan, these are just preliminary requests, and all your 
+deliveries are V3 so I think it probably doesn't matter if we come a little late
+r with ideas for that part of the software.
<allan:#jemxadr> (Something with a missing parameter?END
#jemxadr> But the basic routines do need to be looked into. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Besides looking at the 2 functions there,we should come up with 
+some general ideas for further, useful functions. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> To CA: Thanks. END
#jemxadr> I agree Peter. END
<allan:#jemxadr> OK, I suggest to postpone the discussion of the actual functions
+ to
<huovelin:#jemxadr> I will be at ESO next Friday (just to inform) END
<allan:#jemxadr> next week END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Allan: the question was if one could use the MASK parameter p
+rovided for the actual getEvents function already in getNumEvents. I haven't dis
+cussed thsi with Stephane yet.
<Peter:#jemxadr> Woudl it help if we shift to Thursday next week? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Actually, yes, since I just see on my calendar that I also have 
+a meeting
<allan:#jemxadr> Friday morning....END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> No (to Peter). I'll be off from Wednesday til next Tuesday EN
+D
<allan:#jemxadr> So, I sugest to cancel next Friday and do it the 19th.END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Seems more reasonable. Please hold on for a minute ...
#jemxadr> Okay, no meeting on the 12th, our next will be the 19th, and will invol
+ve a major discussion of DAL3.
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine with me. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK. Sounds fine for us END
<njw:#jemxadr> Agreed END
#jemxadr> I know that by then I will have been grappling with DAL for a week and 
+a half, so hopefully I'll have something useful to say about DAL3, which I don't
+ at present. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Same for us END
#jemxadr> So AI's get new date: 19th Feb. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. I've asked Stephane if he would join our discussion then, bu
+t strangely ehnough he is allowed to take holidays ... END
#jemxadr> Holidays??? What sort of a place are you running there? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Club Leman. What did you think :-) END
#jemxadr> Last action has been closed at the meeting. In this connection: can eve
+ryone make it to Versoix who wants to participate on the March 15, 16? END
<njw:#jemxadr> On my part: yes END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Yes, we (me and Sami) are planning to come END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Wait a moment.
#jemxadr> Can we be sure that Don and Bruce will be at our disposal on those days
+?
#jemxadr> Afterall it is their brains we want to pick. END
<njw:#jemxadr> Peter, have you checked with ISDC people ? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Halfway, too many aren't reliably in.
<larsson:#jemxadr> Later in the week is better but I should be able to rearrange 
+to come monday too. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> The problem with Bruce is that the baby is anticipated for March
+ 10. But there is no 'safe' date within March from that POV. I haven't checked w
+ith Don yet
#jemxadr> So you could say Bruce has a V1 delivery too ! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Stephane will be here on March 15, but is going to Toulouse for 
+>3 days. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> V3 was'nt it END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> So many choldren, already ? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> choldren=children END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Yes for O'Neel's it is the 3rd. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Wow ! END
#jemxadr> Okay, so before we book any tickets, we really need to know how many IS
+DC software brains are going to be available. Thats an AI on you Peter. Due ASAP
+. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> But I'll try to sort out things here, as soon as possible and th
+en send you an email. OK? 
<Peter:#jemxadr> Seems CAO and me agree - quick question would Thursday/Friday 11
+/12 be also an option for SDAST? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> As I have informed, I'm unavailable on Wednesday that week (1
+7th March) END
<njw:#jemxadr> OK for me END
#jemxadr> Yes for me. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> 11-12 March OK END
#jemxadr> I don't really want anything sooner. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> 11-12 seems OK for me too. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Yes, I understand that. Butit might just be that all the 'tutors
+' are not available on Monday/Tuesday. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. I'll try to round them all up and make a plan.
<Peter:#jemxadr> For this it would help, if we could agree on a list of topics to
+ be covered.
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Set a due time for that list, please (Peter) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> E.g. I assume, none of you needs to be told what a FITS file is,
+ what "Extensions" are, etc.
#jemxadr> Could we draw up a list of topics at the next chat in 2 weeks, because 
+until some of us have wrestled with the beast that is DAL, we really don't know 
+what problems there are. END
#jemxadr> Thats an AI on all of us: draw up a list of things we want to know at t
+he ISSW school. Due 19th Feb. Okay? END
#jemxadr> 
*** Error: apollo.dsri.dk: Empty messages cannot be sent
<Peter:#jemxadr> For specific topics I agree, but for a general idea itt would be
+ better to know ASAP at what level you require teaching. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Seems a bit too early. could we postpone it to , say , one we
+ek before the meeting ? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Perhaps we need that list sooner, if Peter should have a chance to
+ organise this END
<Peter:#jemxadr> The problem is: ISDC has to know, how many people and whom to as
+sign to this. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> It makes a huge difference if we start at zero (true for an unna
+med Instrument Team) or go directly to specifics of DAL. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Isn't it clear already without a detailed list (to Peter) END
<njw:#jemxadr> There are basic things and details. I think we need a good introdu
+ction to DAL END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I have my impressions, but would like to see them firmed up. END
#jemxadr> My list of topics will probably include all sorts of programming specif
+ics related to the use of the ISDC libraries. And maybe a little guidance on whe
+re FTOOLS could fit in to all this. END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Same for us END
<allan:#jemxadr> I thought the idea was to get an introduction and then see thing
+s hands-on with the
<allan:#jemxadr> participants executables?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
<njw:#jemxadr> Yes well chosen examples are worth a lot END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Allan: true - the whole question is at what level the introdu
+ction has to start. END
#jemxadr> I think 19 feb should be early enough for us to make a list for ISDC, t
+hat will give them a couple of weeks at least to find someone to help us a diffe
+rent levels END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> I hope that list does not have to be final END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK, let's try it this way
#jemxadr> So: a list of topics, plus a good idea of where a general introduction 
+must begin. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To summarize: from what I hear ISDC can assume a basic knowledge
+ of FITS and FTOOLS.
<Peter:#jemxadr> In two weeks we will have a preliminary list of topics.
<njw:#jemxadr> Yes, I think we know about FITS and FTOOLS END
<Peter:#jemxadr> The format of the workshop should allow for a lot of free-form q
+uestions
#jemxadr> I've never used FTOOLS, but I don't expect ISDC to teach me - I'd just 
+like an idea where ISDC thinks FTOOLS fit in with their libraries. END
#jemxadr> `free form questions' --- that's what we really want. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Which also allows to address efficiently the many specific quest
+ions you may come up with. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I hopeI hurt noones feelings by asking about FITS knowlegde, but
+ we just made this experience somewhere else ...
<allan:#jemxadr> WHat is FITS, really? END
#jemxadr> Good, so that's two AI's on the ISSW school: Peter to find out what he 
+can offer us by way of teachers, and when. And us to find out what we want to he
+ar about. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> My basic assumption was that any astronomer nowadays would know 
+that ... END
<allan:#jemxadr> Oh my, we are down to that level... END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Isn't FITS like CHIPS ? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Clips? END
#jemxadr> Yes, but low fat. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Ah, now we're finally getting close :-) END
<njw:#jemxadr> At least FITS has a header END
#jemxadr> Next: how's the creation of that technical note coming along NJW? Do yo
+u need any help? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> and a footer ? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Not much progress I'm afraid. But I think that there are no too va
+gue
<njw:#jemxadr> points, so sometime next week is my promise END
#jemxadr> That just leaves AOB. AOB anyone? END
<allan:#jemxadr> I will just refer to that note in the minutes about BG END
<allan:#jemxadr> (plus a few more things END)
<njw:#jemxadr> As a side remark to Juhani and Sami, I'm just about ready to deliv
+er
<njw:#jemxadr> event files with weird bkg distributions END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> fine. how do we ger access to them ? END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> ger = get END
<larsson:#jemxadr> If there is nothing urgent I will leave for a seminar. END
<njw:#jemxadr> By ftp, I'll send you a note END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> OK We remain waiting END
<huovelin:#jemxadr> Bye, bye , everybody END
#jemxadr> That's all for this week, folks. Some good news from me: my gain calibr
+ation program's working well on test spectra, so I'll have the processing part o
+f JGainCalculation finished next week: then it's just the ISDC interface that's 
+got ot be
#jemxadr> put in END
*** Signoff: huovelin ()
<larsson:#jemxadr> quit
*** Signoff: larsson ()
<njw:#jemxadr> Have a nice week-end, bye END
*** Signoff: njw ()
#jemxadr> Chat with yo all again, 19th Feb. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> See you then.
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> Bye- have a nice weekend. END
*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Fri Feb  5 10:31:25 1999.
