	Weekly Chat #13: Friday Febuary 26th 1999

Participants: Peter Kretschmar, Stefan Larsson, Sami Maisala, Allan Hornstrup, Carol Anne Oxborrow
	Niels Joergen Westergaard
	
Subjects discussed:
	DAL3: Our wishes
	Software School at ISDC
	New Common Library Functions
	Image Processing/Reconstruction for SAX WFC
	- Another meeting at ISDC?
	
Action Items: 
	
AI990226_1	ALL 	1/4/99		Find out when we can all make it to
ISDC to see the SAX WFC software. April 22-23rd possibly? Peter to ensure the
software is running at ISDC.
OPEN

*** IRC session log started at Fri Feb 26 09:29:34 1999.
*** larsson <~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
<larsson:#jemxadr> Morning!!END
#jemxadr> Hello, Peter and Stefan. How are you two doing? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Good morning Stefan!
<larsson:#jemxadr> Tired but fine, How are you CA END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Hi Carol Anne - I'm slightly tired from sleeping in a bed which was only 195cm long ...
*** njw <~njw@heao1.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> Very, very tired. Both children are sick or injured this week! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CAO: sorry to hear that, what did they do?
<Peter:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> Andreas has hurt his knee: we were in the emergency room till 2am on Tuesday night/wednesday morning. END
#jemxadr> Hi, NJW. How are you? We're all tired, apparently. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> The ones that hav'nt shown up are maybe even more tired than we are? END
*** allan <~allan@apollo.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
<njw:#jemxadr> Hi, I'm OK END
#jemxadr> I hope the Finns, or one of them, will be joining us. Any way, I'd like to keep this quite short. Also can w
+e run quickly through the outstanding action items? END
*** smaisala <~smaisala@taurus.astro.helsinki.fi> joined channel #jemxadr
<Peter:#jemxadr> Shoot. But I'd like to get some news off to you as well. END
#jemxadr> Hi Sami. How are you? END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> Hello, Good Morning everyone. I'v been sick almoust a week, but now I
#jemxadr> Okay, lets start with a quick run down on the AI list. 
#jemxadr> First is for you Allan: have you finished that list for OSM? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Yes, see last chat. END
#jemxadr> Good: I wasn't too sure last week. Next: have we all said what
#jemxadr> we want to say about our wishes for DAL3?
#jemxadr> To the best of my knowledge I'm the only one who's suggested anything. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> I
<njw:#jemxadr> I've had other things do to in the past two weeks, so I'm afraid
<njw:#jemxadr> that I still do not have enough of an overview to make good suggestions for DAL3 END
<larsson:#jemxadr> The silence means I have not yet realy looked at DAL3.
#jemxadr> Shall we let the current list stand for the time being _ it'll keep stephane busy for a while. I think we al
+l need a little more experience with DAl before further suggestions.
<larsson:#jemxadr> I sincearly intend to spend the next two weeks on these things but the last few weeks
#jemxadr> So we'll come back to this subject in a couple of months, maybe. Is that okay with you Peter? END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> Have you all used DAL v 1.2.5?
<larsson:#jemxadr> have been too much other things (teaching mainly) END
#jemxadr> Yes we're using the very latest version. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> DAL3: it's OK to have wishes for add-ons later. What Stephane could really use is a clear "YES" to hi
+s current proposals - or ideas for improvement if you don't agree. END
#jemxadr> I think we all agree with his current proposals, and I've already suggested add-ons to that. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK. So I'll note that SDAST agrees to the current DAL3 and more ideas will come forth in the course o
+f development. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> I agree END
#jemxadr> So I'm closing the DAL3 AI for now. We'll come back to this in a month or so. Yes to your note, Peter. END
#jemxadr> Is anyone else out there experiencing difficulties with IRC? My display is all to pot. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Looks as usual here in Stockholm END
#jemxadr> Last AI: anyone got anything to add to the list of topics for the software `school'? END
<allan:#jemxadr> also here END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Mine works fine, even though I'm logged in from SRON to ISDC and then chat to DSRI. END
#jemxadr> Perhaps IRC is tired too ;-) END
<njw:#jemxadr> IRC is OK for me END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> It is OK END
#jemxadr> Clearly just DSRI on the fritz. Any more S/W school wishes? END
#jemxadr> Next on the agenda: any amazing news for the monthly report? As I said yesterday: don't both with the compon
+ent-by-component breakdown, it doesn't get used. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Your list covered the things I would expect for it CA. Maybe some more details will pop up in the n
+ext two weeks (sorry Peter). END
<Peter:#jemxadr> In this context I should probably point out, that there is a new ISSW-Example on Bruce's WWW pages th
+at makes use of a new rather smart Common library function to handle this question of adressing input data structures
+ via the group or via a direct parameter. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I agree that CAO has a good list already. ISDC might add:
<Peter:#jemxadr> - the new Common functions, what they're good for and why you probably want to use them.
*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@tenma.dsri.dk] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Fri Feb 26 09:54:37 1999.
*** IRC session log started at Fri Feb 26 09:55:14 1999.
<Peter:#jemxadr> - maybe some more things, I'll check with my colleagues on Monday and let you know via 
+email. END
#jemxadr> Thanks, that sounds good. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Nothing specific for the MR. You should have my detailed report (the numbers) already E
+ND
<Peter:#jemxadr> Are you interested in what I learned at SRON (SAX WFC)? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> YES Peter END
#jemxadr> If anyone just mentioned something that needs to be in the monthly report while I was logged o
+ut, could you send me an email. Thanks. Now: AOB. Don't keep us in suspense Peter: what's your news? Ye
+s, we are interested in SRON stuff. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To set the context: SRON is not officially, but in practice the data center for all SAX
+ WFC data. 
<Peter:#jemxadr> They have only a few people (5+) who do this as a part-time job, so the level of organi
+sation and documentation is far less than what we have to do at ISDC.
<Peter:#jemxadr> Yesterday, Jean in't Zand and Gerrit Wiersma ran one of their archived Galactic Center 
+observations "through the mill" for me.
<Peter:#jemxadr> From what I've seen, their processing is very similar to our plans. 
<Peter:#jemxadr> Summarizing they do the following things:
<Peter:#jemxadr> - unpack the data from the proprietary FOT to FITS
<Peter:#jemxadr> - create WFC specific attitude data (the cameras are looking at 90 deg off the main SAX
+ axis)
<Peter:#jemxadr> - calculate gain from Fe55 and Cd109 events, whcih are binned to spectra. A very simple
+ algorithm is used to determine peak positions.
<Peter:#jemxadr> - NOTE: the events are _not_ gain corrected. This information has to be applied manuall
+y later while doing, e.g. spectral fitting.
<Peter:#jemxadr> All the above makes "stage I" of their processing. "stage II" is the actual analysis.
<Peter:#jemxadr> - first they create "detector images" (=shadowgrams)
<Peter:#jemxadr> - then the trusty IROS mechanism (Iterative Removal Of Sources) steps n times over the 
+data
<Peter:#jemxadr>   + deconvolving images (cross-correlation [TBC])
<Peter:#jemxadr>   + finding and identifying sources
<Peter:#jemxadr>   + modeling the source contribution using either 'known' source spectra or the Crab sp
+ectrum as default. 
<Peter:#jemxadr>   (Note: the spectrum influences the PSF for the modeling, but not too strongly)
<Peter:#jemxadr> + removing the contribution from found sources and repeating the steps above.
<Peter:#jemxadr> The whole thing took 5-10 minutes on some HP workstation.
<Peter:#jemxadr> Afterwards they can create images adding up the residual image and the modeled known so
+urce contributions.
<Peter:#jemxadr> They also now have a tool to extract lightcurves using the source positions etc. from I
+ROS and solving for source fluxes and background using essentially the MALF algorithm. 
<Peter:#jemxadr> The lcv program also took a few minutes for the galactic center with ca. 30 sources.
<Peter:#jemxadr> All in all it was quite reassuring, because this seems to match quite well our plans. E
+ND
<Peter:#jemxadr> Added note: their documentation mentions a "wspiros" tool to extract spectra about whic
+h I have to inquire. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Any comments? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Very good to hear that, Peter. END
<allan:#jemxadr> I agree with NJ's comment END
#jemxadr> Thank you Peter. That's good to hear that it can be done so quickly. Are they willing to give 
+us advice etc. when we need it? END
<allan:#jemxadr> Actually, it seems that more of us could benefit from going 
<allan:#jemxadr> to SRON  :-) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Oh I forgot: they do some position corrections, both for readout and for satellite wobb
+le, contrary to theiir User Manual this is done in stage II nowadays. END
#jemxadr> Yes, NJW and Juhani at the very least. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Peter: It is interesting to hear that they are now using MALF
<larsson:#jemxadr> which is not what they had before. Did they comment on the difference? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> In principle they are very willing to give advice but their time is rather limited. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> AFAIK the software has been installed at ISDC and I plan to try and use it with some pu
+blic data in the next months. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Stefan: the new ways to extract lightcurves is much faster and more reliable than ru
+nning IROS for each timeslice. 
<Peter:#jemxadr> This is especially true since they are interested in X-ray bursts where they create lig
+htcurves on timescales of seconds. END
#jemxadr> Could NJW and Juhani get to play with/look over the software while we're all at ISDC? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Twice per year they have planned observations of the Galactic Center with the WFC and m
+any of those observations contain X-ray bursts (remember their very wide FOV). END
<Peter:#jemxadr> CAO's question: possibly, if (a) it is actually running and (b) we find the time. END
#jemxadr> Perhaps they could visit ISDC at a slightly later date, or go to SRON themselves. END
#jemxadr> BTW, Peter: was that all your news, or are you waiting to spring something else on us. Like IS
+DC has decided that all programming shall be done in ADA henceforth, for example? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Given the limited time of people here, I propose we first try to get the software runni
+ng within SDAST and resolve small problems via email. END
<njw:#jemxadr> It's probably better to talk to the 'experts' on the spot, so a visit to SRON is best END
#jemxadr> I agree NJW. Also we don't want to be re-inventing the wheel. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> News: that's everything I can think of right now. Please do take a look at the new exam
+ple and bugger us with questions about it. END.
<njw:#jemxadr> Bruce's example ? END
#jemxadr> I think (hope!) you mean `badger us'. Bugger is something else entirely! END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To NJW: In principle you're right. But we should make an effort to understand their wor
+k in some detail before the next visit by us, simply because they are doing all this in the scarce time
+ besides their other duties. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> If we are concidering a second visit to ISDC
<larsson:#jemxadr> we should decide on a date now (preliminary at least) sibce
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CAO: My impression was that in the U.S. "bugger" was used in this way END
<njw:#jemxadr> To Peter: I agree, but we should not spend too much time at ISDC
<larsson:#jemxadr> I intend to buy a back-to-back ticket. I might as well make it
#jemxadr> Maybe in San Francisco! END
<njw:#jemxadr> with a short introduction we could do it remotely END
<larsson:#jemxadr> usefull for a second trip?
<larsson:#jemxadr> END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Let's get this straightened out: NJW could you also come a 2nd time, somewhen in April 
+maybe?
<Peter:#jemxadr> Possibly you need to come anyway to install the OSIM software ... END
<allan:#jemxadr> We need to resolve the financial problems here first, so let us 
<allan:#jemxadr> look into that and continue via email. END
#jemxadr> What about you Stefan: you could probably also do to see the SAX WFC work? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> To CA: Yes END
<njw:#jemxadr> Yes, I could go to ISDC a second time - if we have travel money for that END
<larsson:#jemxadr> End of April is probably fine for me. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK, so with the caveat of lack of money let's plan for end of April to meet and work to
+gether with the SAX WFC software on some public data. 
#jemxadr> Okay, that's an AI: all find out ASAP when we can go to ISDC and if we've actually got the mon
+ey to do it. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> How about (preliminarily) setting this to Apr 22+23? END
<njw:#jemxadr> Alright to Apr 22+23 END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine Peter END
#jemxadr> Can you be sure the software will be running at ISDC by then Peter? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> 99% sure. I haven't seen if there are specific problems yet. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> I'll check next week, but possibly I need to wait until Davide is back to see what he h
+as done (or tried to do). END
#jemxadr> I have to check dates with my husband: he's in Birmingham some time soon. END
#jemxadr> Any other Business? If not, thank you all for a very productive (and time-limited) chat. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Have you all started to write a prototype ISSW executable? END
#jemxadr> I'm learning about DOLS: the HARD way. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Yeah, you know a hard education builds character ;-) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Any other comments? Or shall we call it a day for now? END
#jemxadr> Thank you all for your participation, and have a good weekend. Get some REST! END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Same to you CA (+the rest) .END
<njw:#jemxadr> Good bye - there still time for one or two applications today ( or ? ) END
<larsson:#jemxadr> BYE, bye END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> We will ... BYE END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Good luck to you and your family Carol Anne! END
*** Signoff: njw ()
*** Signoff: smaisala ()
*** Signoff: allan ()
*** Signoff: larsson ()
*** Signoff: Peter (Leaving)
#jemxadr> \exit
