
   Weekly chat # 16: Friday 16th April 1999
   
Participants: Peter Kretschmar, Stefan Larsson, Sami Maisala, Allan Hornstrup,
	Carol Anne Oxborrow, Niels Joergen Westergaard

Subjects discussed: SAX WFC software
		Data Structures: html files, level arrangement; questions
		Countrate Packet
		ADD: updating with deliveries
		DDD: providing skeleton files
		ISDC proposal-making system

Action Items:

AI990416_1	ALL	23/4/99		Everyone to circulate and email list
of data structure-related questions before the chat meeting dedicated to
that subject

AI990416_2	ALL	JUNE 1999	All coders to provide files using
ddd.sty commmands for the DDD: V1 modules require full documentation, while
all others are sufficient with basic information only.
OPEN



*** IRC session log started at Fri Apr 16 09:31:44 1999.
<larsson:#jemxadr> Goodmorning CA. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Hi Carol Anne! END
*** smaisala <~smaisala@taurus.astro.helsinki.fi> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> Hi, Peter. and stefan end
<smaisala:#jemxadr> Hello everyone! END.
#jemxadr> I'll just go and wake up the other DSRI'ers. END
*** allan <~allan@apollo.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
<Peter:#jemxadr> Can we keep this short? I'm still working on my XMM proposal ... END
#jemxadr> Yes, let's keep it short. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine! END
H allan        #jemxadr 0 Allan Hornstrup                ~allan@apollo.dsri.dk
H smaisala     #jemxadr 0 *real name unknown*   ~smaisala@us.astro.helsinki.fi
H larsson      #jemxadr 0 Stefan Larsson              ~larsson@130.226.216.181
H Peter@       #jemxadr 0 KRETSCHMAR Peter         ~pkretsch@isdcul10.unige.ch
H oxborrow     #jemxadr 0 Carol Anne Oxborrow        ~oxborrow@130.226.216.181
315 apollo.dsri.dk * End of /WHO list.      
#jemxadr> First on the agenda is the AI list. Has everyone seen this? It's on the
*** njw <~njw@heao1.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
#jemxadr> SDASt chat page.END
#jemxadr> We're going through the AI list, NJW. 
<njw:#jemxadr> Alright END
#jemxadr> First AI is for AH and NJW:due may, to determine if an observational 
<njw:#jemxadr> (hello, everyone) END
#jemxadr> analysis is needed: i.e. putting together all the results from a complete
#jemxadr> set of ditherings. How's that going guys? END
<allan:#jemxadr> To Peter - so am I :-) END
<njw:#jemxadr> Still running in the background END
<allan:#jemxadr> We haven't looked in detail on that issue yet ... END
#jemxadr> Okay, that was just a reminder to make sure there's something in a month's time. Next is to fi
+nd out who and when will look at the SAX WFC software. This is on all, but I think it's
#jemxadr> of most interest to the background/imaging folks. What do you say: PK,
#jemxadr> SM, NJW, SL? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK with me. NJW, SL and me will meet in a few days to play with it anyway. END
#jemxadr> Great, so that one's as good as closed. END
#jemxadr> Next is for everyone to read up about the proposed data structures for next
#jemxadr> week's dedicated chat meeting about DSs. I have a major problem on this on, Peter: I can't get
+ Stefan's html pages to print
#jemxadr> out here: I spent ALL yesterday on it, and nearly went crazy. Has he
#jemxadr> put something odd into those pages that makes it hard for them to be
#jemxadr> converted to Postscript at this end? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I was able to print them after downloading the html
<larsson:#jemxadr> files and then printing those. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Why exactly? What is going wrong? END
#jemxadr> Thanks Stefan, I'll try that. I've never had this problem before, and I've always previously j
+ust hit `print' on Netscape and out popped the page. END
<allan:#jemxadr> Could you just remind me the URL, and I'll briefly try from my
<smaisala:#jemxadr> I have a same problem in data structure pages. My browser can
<allan:#jemxadr> machine (should, however, be the same as CAO'2) END
#jemxadr> All I get is banner pages, no web page printout, and if I print to file all the file contains 
+is the PS prolog, so the printer has nothing to print. It's not the printer's fault. END
*** Signoff: larsson (EOF From client)
<Peter:#jemxadr> Possibly a problem with all these cgi scripts en vogue at ISDC ... END
<allan:#jemxadr> Could you then tell them that the cgi- approach is a poor one? 
<allan:#jemxadr> You can just say, that I asked you to convey that (so
*** larsson <~larsson@tenma.dsri.dk> joined channel #jemxadr
<allan:#jemxadr> that you personally not get in trouble) END
#jemxadr> Allan, I just emailed you the URL, it is http://isdc.unige.ch/doc/tec/add/add-w/data/list2html
+.cgi?add-w+J
#jemxadr> +MXi
<allan:#jemxadr> Merci END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To Allan: I'll tell them, but don't think it will change. It's deeply entrenched, also 
+Stephane saves some work with this. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> Can you see those pages in your browser? END
<allan:#jemxadr> I thought so :-) END
#jemxadr> Well, if there are no concrete suggestions, I think we should move on: just be sure to have ha
+d a good look at these structures before next week. Yes I can browse the pages, and view the source htm
+l file, that looks fine to me, just like ma
#jemxadr> 
*** Error: apollo.dsri.dk: Empty messages cannot be sent
#jemxadr> ny of my own html files: full of tables. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> Save them as txt and print out with mpage. END
#jemxadr> Last AI is on me to get Niels Lund to send ISDC the countrate packet format
<larsson:#jemxadr> I am saving them as html and then reread them into netscape
<larsson:#jemxadr> and print or store as postscript. END
<allan:#jemxadr> (Sorry to go back to the browser problem:  I just mailed myself the
<allan:#jemxadr> pages and now they print. ) END
#jemxadr> sot that PreProcessing can get to work on it: i've talked to NL and like me, he thought that t
+he countrate packet was all finished and agreed at the time of the SDAST meeting
<allan:#jemxadr> It is, we just dont have the details, do we?
<allan:#jemxadr> END
#jemxadr> here in March. BUT, then Ib wanted to look at it and confere with the Poles, Grzegorz and mare
+k and NL hasn't heard anything since.
<Peter:#jemxadr> Some days ago I received an email from Ib with some info on TM details and there the fo
+rmat was still open END
#jemxadr> So I'll keep on to NL and he'll keep on to Ib, and maybe this countrate thing will be sorted o
+ut soon. NB `soon' is a very 
#jemxadr> loosely defined term. END
#jemxadr> So the last AI is still ongoing. Next on the agenda is any preliminary questions about data st
+ructures. I have a couple, what about the rest of you? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> None from me. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> None yet END.
<larsson:#jemxadr> None from Stockholm. END
#jemxadr> Okay here's my one big question: why is everything so strangely arranged between the different
+ data levels now?
<njw:#jemxadr> I have one on JMXi-RMF.-RSP: is this to be a real redestribution matrix in OGIP format ? 
+END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To NJW: as far as I know yes. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To CAO: What do you mean exactly? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I think so too. END
#jemxadr> For example, why isn't every JMXi-XXXX-RAW file in the level one scientific data structures? W
+hy is the housekeeping file -CSSW-HRW in the level one SCIENTIFIC data structures, but
#jemxadr> -Time-RAW is in level one CALIBRATION and SPEC-RAW and SPEC-PRW are in
#jemxadr> LEVEl 2? I just don't understand this arrangement at all END
<Peter:#jemxadr> On moment please ...
<njw:#jemxadr> Meanwhile: What is GROUP 1 of structure JMXi-GRP1-GTI ? END
#jemxadr> It is perhaps only fair to warn you that Soren Brandt may come with a lot of suggestions for c
+hanges too. END
<njw:#jemxadr> And what is a residual map of the sky (JMXi-RESD-OIR) ? END
<Peter:#jemxadr> SP is just looking over my shoulder: he is somewhat confused too by the -RAW mess - som
+ething's going awry. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> He'll look into this - POST XMM Deadline!
#jemxadr> That's good to know, Peter: I suspected after yesterday's fiasco that it
#jemxadr> was the Oxborrow brain that had shorted out.....END
<Peter:#jemxadr> To NJW: residual images are images where detected point sources have been removed.
<Peter:#jemxadr> The GRP1 is just a placeholder (strange choice, IMHO, came from Reiner once) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> This GRP1 is supposed to later be replaced by something descriptive about the way the G
+TI were derived. END
#jemxadr> Thse are just very preliminary questions: can I suggest that we all put aside at least two hou
+rs for the chat next week: I think we need a very thorough discussion of this subject. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> Sounds good to me END
#jemxadr> We may need even more that that to get the subject completely thrashed out, so be warned SDAST
+ers all! END
#jemxadr> Next on the agenda: any problems with coding, delivery, developement?
<Peter:#jemxadr> If SB has  good ideas, maybe he should forward them per email before the chat, so we ca
+n think about them before discussing. END
#jemxadr> I've just put a new Make file on the forum page, this is greatly improved, and should work a t
+reat for anyone using the /t/jemx/isdc developers environment. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Hmm, I am fighting with that strange "C"-langu. but I slowly getting allong. END
#jemxadr> Perhaps we should all circulate an email list of our questions be fore the chat meeting: that'
+s an AI on everyone - email a list of data structure-related questions to everyone else in the SDAST be
+fore Fridqay's chat. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Yes I agree (about the emails) CA. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Me too. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> OK END
#jemxadr> To Peter: `C' is like any lady: a princess if you treat her right! END
#jemxadr> Any problems with the /t/jemx/isdc environment, please send me an email. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I think your C-comment was for me CA. END
#jemxadr> Next, about updating the ADD: I think this should be done with each delivery, so that the rele
+vant pages get updated with the delivery of the relevant software.
<Peter:#jemxadr> Agreed END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Yes. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> OK END
#jemxadr> At the end of the delivery process we can make it into one coherenet whole, but the work alrea
+dy done should ensure that there is a certain coherence already such that individual
#jemxadr> modules can be tinkered with without affecting the whole thing.
#jemxadr> The intermediate updates will be numbered 4.1, 4.2 etc. and the next
#jemxadr> complete update after all deliveries will be 5.0 END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Sounds good to me END
#jemxadr> If there are no questions on the ADD, then we'll move on to the DDD:
#jemxadr> The first DDD delivery should be within a month or so of our first formal software delivery: I
+SDC needs to know how our modules fit into the pipeline (ADD) and into our own executables (DDD). For t
+hose not delivering then, we could perhaps 
#jemxadr> do with skeleton entries for the later deliveries - could you all provide some kind of very ba
+sic overview of your planned functions and subroutines, based on pruned down version of ddd.sty? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> I guess so. END
#jemxadr> Processing listed as pseudo code could be left out, but the name of the coder, institution, su
+broutine's function and children could be provided for most routines surely. END
#jemxadr> I'll make that an AI on everyone: to provide DDD files for each function, with complete docume
+ntation required for me and Peter, and skeleton information from the rest of you. When shoud the due da
+te be, end of May? END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Well If another week dont hurt I would prefer that.
#jemxadr> Let's say mid-June, if that's alright with the rest of you. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> End of May we have our deadline for next years funding. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> OK Mid June
#jemxadr> Mid June it is: don't want to clash with other deadlines. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> Fine. END
#jemxadr> Now AOB: Anyone for AOB?END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Nothing from me. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> No. END
<larsson:#jemxadr> No. END
<allan:#jemxadr> 25~Happy proposing , those of you who must fiddle with XRPS.  Hope the integral one wil
+l be better - easier - to use :-) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> AMEN TO THAT!
<Peter:#jemxadr> We should make some pressure on ISOC, while we still stand a chance ... END
<allan:#jemxadr> YEs.  From the iSDC meeting, I think they do understand that partly ...END
#jemxadr> Well, then: HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND EVERYONE (and remember to read all the data structures!!) THE 
+SUN IS SHINING HERE!! (Thank heavens I don't have to write and XMM proposal.....)END
<larsson:#jemxadr> OK. buy everyone. END
<smaisala:#jemxadr> Have a nice weekend! :-) END
<Peter:#jemxadr> Don't make me envious ... around here it's grey and I have to write. END
<Peter:#jemxadr> googdby enjoy your weekend everyone. END
*** Signoff: larsson ()
*** Signoff: Peter (Leaving)
*** Signoff: smaisala ()
*** Error: Closing Link: oxborrow[~oxborrow@130.226.216.181] () 
*** IRC session log ended at Fri Apr 16 10:33:12 1999.
